Curse

Umbra · May 13, 2005, 07:44 PM // 19:44

One of the ideas of guild wars is that the game will be based off of skill not how long you play. Because of this equipment was desighned to be basicly unimportant because everyone could get the best in almost no time. While I like the fact that Guild Wars isn't like Everquest where equipment completely makes or breaks a character Id like to point out some of the problems this causes. Basicly their is no point to go out of your way to do things in PvE. Because equipment doesn't matter their is no reward for leaving the main paths and working your way to some of the hard to reach areas of the wilderness and dungeons. The same is preddy much true for sidequests. The reward of experience is worthless because it's so easy to reach the level cap. It's also very anticlimatic to get to a very cool looking part of a dungeon after fighting many tough enemys only to find that theirs nothing their. Their needs to be some reward for doing PvE.

BChan · May 13, 2005, 07:50 PM // 19:50

Well I think they could do something similar to how COH did their badge system which was purely for fluff. Would kinda give more reason to do stuff in PvE and just make it more of a personal thing to do.

Dubby · May 13, 2005, 07:52 PM // 19:52

Actually, I really like exploring, and just wandering around. So I get rewarded in PvE that way.

Holoman · May 13, 2005, 07:56 PM // 19:56

I am a pure PVE player and yeah I have to agree that there is barely any rewards for killing mobs. All I get is money, some crappy loot that I don't want, and items for crafting. I'm only lv14 though, so I hope at least at higher lvls there is actually some loot to look forward to.

Umbra · May 13, 2005, 07:57 PM // 19:57

I liked the badge system from Coh (although it sucked haveing to go back for quests you missed lol) it would be cool to have something similar. It would be nice though to have something that would actually have some practical use. It would have to be balanced so that it doesn't overshadow skill though. Perhaps it would be possible to make item selection more strategic in itself? Something that might help(not solve the problem but help) would be if their was some choice in your reward from quests. If your a sword focused warrior an axe skill or a hammer isn't really any reward at all.

Nicholai Phoenix · May 13, 2005, 09:28 PM // 21:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Umbra

One of the ideas of guild wars is that the game will be based off of skill not how long you play. Because of this equipment was desighned to be basicly unimportant because everyone could get the best in almost no time. While I like the fact that Guild Wars isn't like Everquest where equipment completely makes or breaks a character Id like to point out some of the problems this causes. Basicly their is no point to go out of your way to do things in PvE. Because equipment doesn't matter their is no reward for leaving the main paths and working your way to some of the hard to reach areas of the wilderness and dungeons. The same is preddy much true for sidequests. The reward of experience is worthless because it's so easy to reach the level cap. It's also very anticlimatic to get to a very cool looking part of a dungeon after fighting many tough enemys only to find that theirs nothing their. Their needs to be some reward for doing PvE.

Ahh your wrong there, there is a reward for the PvE, but not in the PvE itself. If all you really want to do is PvP, then you can make that PvP char only thing(starts on level 20 with the best equipment already or whatevr). Here is the problem though, if you don't make a RP char, or at least go through some missions, you probably won't have any skills. When I made a PvP char, the only skills I had to pick from where the skills my RP char unlocked.
So the rewards from killing the monsters arn't that good, you need to od it to finish the quests that give you the skills. Or buy them, but in order to do that you need gold, and skill points. In order to get gold and skill points you... need to kill monsters! =D
See it works out lol.
This is all based on if the fact that the only skills you can pick form when making a PvP char is the skills you unlocked during the missions/quests you have got them from is true.

Eclair · May 13, 2005, 10:28 PM // 22:28

75k armor, enough said =)

However, they should add more headgears that you can customize stats to. Nothing better than any of the other headgears, but it'd be fun to wear something wierd into battle.

Umbra · May 14, 2005, 11:32 AM // 11:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nicholai Phoenix

Ahh your wrong there, there is a reward for the PvE, but not in the PvE itself. If all you really want to do is PvP, then you can make that PvP char only thing(starts on level 20 with the best equipment already or whatevr). Here is the problem though, if you don't make a RP char, or at least go through some missions, you probably won't have any skills. When I made a PvP char, the only skills I had to pick from where the skills my RP char unlocked.
So the rewards from killing the monsters arn't that good, you need to od it to finish the quests that give you the skills. Or buy them, but in order to do that you need gold, and skill points. In order to get gold and skill points you... need to kill monsters! =D
See it works out lol.
This is all based on if the fact that the only skills you can pick form when making a PvP char is the skills you unlocked during the missions/quests you have got them from is true.

The problem is that one will get all this just by doing the bare minimum of the one player story line and mabey a couple of side quests. Theirs still no reward for going out of your way to explore the out of the way areas and after you reach the level cap and go through the story theirs absolutly no reason to do PvE.

kuklovod · May 14, 2005, 01:54 PM // 13:54

there is a reason - get skills. the reason for finishing story is to be able to get to hard parts of the game, to get skills and runes/upgrades. if you think you can find all skills you need and all superior runes you need in one day you are very wrong. There is reward for doing pve, and quite a huge one - ability to play pvp.

Jackell · May 14, 2005, 02:48 PM // 14:48

The reward for PvE, and I do a lot of it, is the exploration. The "Ooh, what's over here?" and excitement of checking out a new place. I dunno, I enjoy it more without having to farm around and find a weapon good enough to go to the next area.

Dubby · May 14, 2005, 04:23 PM // 16:23

The exploration is great and a pve reward for people that are playing the game to enjoy the pve and not planning to stick around forever in pvp. However, exploration will dull out when you go everywhere, and the game will get shelved by that person most likely. If the gameplay in pve is more rewarding itself, whether through more items, more variety in items, more custimzation in items, or well frankly some sort of badge/reward system. THEN YES <3 that would keep people playing pve longer, and make them more likely to buy expansion packs in expectations of whats new and cool.

Umbra · May 14, 2005, 04:30 PM // 16:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jackell

The reward for PvE, and I do a lot of it, is the exploration. The "Ooh, what's over here?" and excitement of checking out a new place. I dunno, I enjoy it more without having to farm around and find a weapon good enough to go to the next area.

For me it's not so much that I dont like the exploration, but more that it's a letdown when I get to their. I often find myself getting to spectacularlooking places (like that stained glass grim reaper in the caticomes) only to find theirs nothing of importance their. It's like what Raiders of the Lost Ark would be if their wasn't an ark.

Jackell · May 14, 2005, 05:34 PM // 17:34

See, it's not so much the shiney thing I would get at the grim reaper, it's getting there that I'm in love with, and I'm personally lookin forward to the expansions to see more "Hey, what's in here?"

But, to each their own, I definatly understand the wishing for the reward, I just like to consider myself lucky being satisfied knowing that I made it there to begin with.

dansamy · May 14, 2005, 06:28 PM // 18:28

As a non-PvP, I will also be looking forward to expansions. Expansions keep the game experience fresh & exciting for the PvE-only player. I'm not much for PvP. Occasionally, I'll try it out, but it's just not my thing.

Jab · May 14, 2005, 06:30 PM // 18:30

I loved the coh badge system ( I had all the accolades and spent one night farming the crey pistol one) That would be nice here, maybe have certain signets as rewards, give them the 1 use per mission and it should be kept balance. I do agree the somewhat lack of loot is a bit dishearting. I really miss the set items from Diablo 2. I think if they add more armor sets ( with more stats and such) that should help ease the pain.

Umbra · May 14, 2005, 06:48 PM // 18:48

Looking at all the suggestions here's the way it looks to me for ideas to make it better:

1.) Add more variety to items, particularly armor. Perhaps upgrades other than runes for armor. If this could be done in such a way that item selection has more strategy that would be a plus.

2.) Add purely visual upgrades similar to dies. Make some be drops and others be related to accomplishments. Stuff like capturing enemy standards or skulls of dangerous creatures you've vanquished.

3.) Upgrades that have ingame effects but that dont directly or only minorly effect actual power. Stuff like slightly increasing bow rang (around +5 feet) slightly increasing speed (very small like 1-5%). Or once per battle/mission effects(like accolades in CoH).

4.) Weapons and armor that effect some of the less used stats/variables such as the %chance to hit different body parts, physical damage type, stufflike that.

5.) A badge system CoH style that helps contribute to the above.

6.) A set item thing might be cool. Basicly a very minor bonus for collecting all of a set. Perhaps the only way to craft these "set items" would be to find special crafters in out of the way places and complete quests for them. Stuff like "Journey to the middle of ____ forest and bring me back some starmetal so I can craft you the _____ sword."

Another interesting idea would be items similar to WoW's "battle standards" which are basicly stationary area of effect buffs from items.

Thanks for all the input, lots of people have given lots of good ideas and I think I also better understand the point of view of people who like PvE for it's own reward. Any feedback is much appreciated.

Umbra

Talus · May 14, 2005, 06:50 PM // 18:50

Well, for me the game is fun. I like to explore. It's not about XP. I LIKE collecting gear even though the effects aren't very noticeable.

Kerus Tel Veren · May 14, 2005, 06:57 PM // 18:57

I strongly agree with the sentiment, but at the same time, I love the balanced PvP.

I'm not sure what the best solution is (assuming there is even a broad consensus that it is a problem).

Exploring is nice and all (the world is beautiful and expansive), but there is so little tangible reward for slaughtering the endless masses of foes out there.

I'd imagine they'll keep adding fun prestige stuff like the 15k armors in the future though (and there are still three unused god statues atm, potentially three more uber dungeons). Presumably they'll keep adding stuff to the existing world (quests, items, etc). It's a shame that the quests are so bland and generic, both in execution and rewards.

I don't want to see a situation where people who farm endlessly are flat out superior in all cases in pvp, but likewise, it's nice to be rewarded for exploring the world and defeating challenging encounters.

Dubby · May 14, 2005, 07:47 PM // 19:47

They need another "exp" bar. Not one for levels or stats, something else. Kind of like fame, but more based on the actual definition of the word "experience". Something that goes up and up and up and up and up and may not even stop. What could it be for though? Trophies? Goodies? Some kind of reward system to give us humans that "yay" at the end of that sprawling dungeon.

Being enticed by scenery is only so satisfying. Maybe for a weekend retreat this game might be fun for pve, but why do a "weekend retreat" in a game? :|

Jab · May 15, 2005, 03:07 AM // 03:07

I think if they ever add households maybe the idea of trophies(like accoldades) could fit into them. Like finding this area nets you a trophy. Maybe by getting x amt of trophies you could unlock something for your house hold or some other reward that doesn't directily affect the game.